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eaglecircle.org • Виж темата - Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

За това как са битували индианците, дали са били културни или просто "див народ - ходят голи, ядат хора"

Модератор: Black Wolf

Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Нед Апр 04, 2010 1:19 am

Този въпрос ме занимава от известно време, и то не само по отношение на лакота, а въобще на Северните Равнини.Просто религиозните традиции на лакота са сред най-съхранените.В някои книги(и то от признати авторитети) се твърди,че религията им е политеистична, други смятат ,че са пантеисти.Кое е вярното според вас?
Моето лично мнение е, че е била политеистична преди, в днешния си вид лакотската религия е по-скоро пантеистична.Смятам,че тази промяна се дължи на съприкосновението с християнството, и с американската култура.
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот Black Wolf » Нед Апр 04, 2010 10:23 am

Според мен е монотеистична.
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Нед Апр 04, 2010 11:06 am

Според мен пантеизма е разновидност на монотеизма.Съгласен съм,че в днешният си вид лакотската религия е монотеистична .Мисля, че това е под влияние на американската култура,и в частност на християнството.Струва ми се,че религията им от преди 150г е била политеистична.
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот Black Wolf » Нед Апр 04, 2010 5:23 pm

Не знам доколко политеизмът е реално нещо. Почни всички плитеистични уж религии, които познавам, признават наличието на една върховна висша сила покрай другите.
От друга страна типичния монотеизъм като християнството има ангели, светци, дяволи и пр. и пр. - т.е. наличие на сума ти други свръхестествени същества. Къв монотеизъм е това?... Може би исляма е монотеизъм в по-чист вид. Ама и там имат джинове май... 8)

От 15-томната "Енциклопедия на религиите", 2-ро изд. от 2005 г. (това е може би най-доброто справочно издание за религия, което съществува) съм извадил част от материалите за религиите на североамериканските индианци.
Активиран е линк за публичен достъп:
http://dox.bg/files/dw?a=15f126067e
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Нед Апр 04, 2010 8:13 pm

Съгласен съм,че монотеизъм и политеизъм в чист вид няма.Но все пак отделните религии клонят в по-голяма степен към едното или към другото.В монотеистична религия като християнството, Бог има пълната власт над ангелите,демоните и светците.В много политеистични религии, не е точно така.Въпреки наличието на сила по висша от останалите, тя няма абсолютна власт над другите божества.Типичен пример е древногръцката религия.

Благодаря за интересните материали!
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот Pejuta » Пон Апр 05, 2010 4:38 pm

Sigurno az sam tapa ama tia vsichki dumi deto zavarshvat na -istichna, ism, neshto ne gi razbiram.Moeto mnenie e che vsichki religii proizlizat ot facta, che choveshkia mozak ne e dostatachno goliam da razbere ili da prieme istinata. Nie obichame da oprostiavame neshtata. :овца:
Never regret anything that once made you smile.
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот White Horse » Вто Апр 06, 2010 2:04 pm

Любопитни мнения по въпроса изказва скандалният (според някои), но и доста интересен изследовател Julian Rice в книгата си "Before the Great Spirit: The Many Faces of Sioux Spirituality". Rice е твърдо убеден, че днес може да се говори за своеобразен монотеизъм в лакотската религия, но това е следствие на християнски и ню-ейдж влияния! Според него старата религия на лакота е била по-скоро пантеистична, като в нея особено ярко е бил застъпен ВОИНСКИЯТ елемент. Rice смята, че идеята за "хармонизирането на света" до степен превръщането му в място на абсолютен баланс, мир и взаиморазбирателство (която днес присъства в мненията и изказванията и на мнозина лакота) е сравнително късна заемка от духовните учения на други индиански народи като хопите и със сигурност носи белези на някакъв пан-индианизъм, а също и на ню-ейдж влияние. Това никак не е изключено, макар и Julian Rice понякога да е действително (малко или повече) краен в теориите си и определено да си пада по "хвърлянето на бомби" в центъра на вече (уж) изяснени въпроси. За лакотски "политеизъм" донякъде говори James R. Walker, но да не забравяме, че той е бил лекар, а не етнолог, пък и очевидно си е падал по старогръцката история и култура (в това число и по елинската митологична система).
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот Black Wolf » Вто Апр 06, 2010 3:27 pm

Днес истинността събрания от Уолкър материал се оспорва - първо е пречупвал нещата през добре познатата му (и на повечето образовани хора тогава) класическа (гръко-римска) митология, и втоо той е плащал "на парче" и съществуват сведения, че лакота са си съчинявали легенди, за да ги запише той. По негово време мисионерите са действали яко - да не забравяме, че сума ти информатори като Черния Лос, Сабята и пр. са били по това време християни. Вярно, че са продължавали да бъдат и адепти на старата вяра, но се е получил един синкретизъм..

Мисля, че требва да се види какво пишат баш авторитете - Джоузеф Е. Браун, Р. ДеМайли, У. Пауърс и Джулиан Райс разбира се. Много ценни са нещата на Фр. Денсмор, Ела Делория, Бушотер. Въобще това е един според мен много сложен въпрос, на който трудно може да се даде отговор, защото лакотската религия е нещо очевидно доста динамично.
Освен това при индианските религии няма ясно изградени доктрини от каноничен тип - естествено съществува конвенция по определени въпроси, но тълкуванията на много неща са индивидуални.
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот Pejuta » Вто Апр 06, 2010 3:51 pm

Moje li niakoi da mi obiasni kakvo e New Age?
Never regret anything that once made you smile.
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Вто Апр 06, 2010 5:01 pm

Съгласен съм,че Rice е краен,често скандален и провокативен,но въпреки това аз приемам повечето от тезите му в т.ч. и че лакотската религия е била политеистична.Съгласен съм,че днес истинността на материала събран от Walker e под въпрос,но в такъв случай трябва да поставим под въпрос и някои от баш авторитетите,като например DeMallie,който изключително често се позовава на сведения събирани от Walker,и прави важни изводи на база на тях!
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Вто Апр 06, 2010 5:02 pm

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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот heyoka » Сря Апр 07, 2010 8:55 am

Възможно е и да греша...
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот ikche wichasha » Сря Апр 07, 2010 8:56 pm

Дядо Куция Елен казва например(цитирам превода)"Боговете са отделни същества но всички те са обединени в Уакан Танка.Трудно е за разбиране-нешто като Сверата Троица.Не мозеш да ги обиасниш освен чрез връштане към идеята за "кръгове в кръгове"духът които се разделя в камани,дървета дори дребни насекоми като прави всички тях Уакан с вечното си присъствие.И обратно - всички тези безброини нешта които образуват вселената са обединени в този Прататко Дух."
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Сря Апр 07, 2010 9:12 pm

Ами,това което казва Куция Елен е съвременния монотеистичен,или по точно пантеистичен вариант на лакотската религия.Въпроса е,че според мнозина лакотската религия е била политеистична, а не пантеистична.Това разбира се не може да бъде категорично доказано,както изтъкна по-горе и Black Wolf.
Днес Уакан Танка се разглежда като едно божество с различни лица и проявления,нещо като Светата Троица.Твърде християнско схващане! Повечето лакота смятат че Уакан Танка и Тункашила са едно и също.Това според мен е под влияние на християнството през последните 130 години.
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот Black Wolf » Чет Апр 08, 2010 8:35 am

Имше едно определение за религията на кроу (май от Р. Фрей) което много добре пасва и тук. За съжаление не си го спомням точно, нито откъде съм го чел, нито на кого всъщност беше. Но смисълът е следния - има няколко общи неща, които са предмет на известна конвенция (т.е. общо разбирателство) поне в общи линии, а в останалите тълкуването на силите, природата на божественото и пр и пр. подлежат на лични интерпретации, които понякога доста се различават. Затова при индианците не трябва да се чудим, ако един е казал едно, друг - друго и т.н., когато става въпрос за религия. :wink:
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот Black Wolf » Чет Апр 08, 2010 8:43 am

Това е от Лоуи. При сканирето някои букви са "избягали", но може да се чете. При лакоте май не е било много по-розлично. :wink:

XI. Religion
IN a crisis an African Negro calls a diviner, who casts his sacred dice and by occult lore interprets the throw: such and such a one of his client's ancestors is angry and so many head of cattle must be slaughtered to appease his wrath. The Crow had no system of divination, never worshiped their an¬cestors, and made no bloody sacrifices. When hard put to it, the Indian tried to meet divinity face to face. A direct revelation without priestly go-between was the obvious panacea for human ills, the one secure basis of earthly goods. It might come as an unsought blessing, but only by a lucky fluke; hence a Crow strove for it by courting the pity of the supernaturals in the traditional way. To any major catastrophe, to any overwhelming urge, there was an automatic response: you sought a revelation. Every Crow, battered by fortune, writhing under humiliation, or consumed with ambition set forth on the quest of a vision. To take a few random samples: A legendary hero who has been spurned by a supercilious beauty at once goes to a solitary rock, is blessed by a spirit, and becomes a great man. Another lover meets an elk, who teaches him to charm all women, so that the haughty maiden is now seized with an uncontrollable passion for her erstwhile victim. When a cruel chief steps on an orphan's neck, the poor boy at once gives notice to his kin: "My elder brothers, give me moccasins, give me arrows, I am going for a vision. Don't worry about me, some time I'll return." A bear takes pity on him, and enables him to turn the tables on his enemy. Again, when a Crow is killed in a clan feud, his brother forthwith departs; successively blessed by a bear, a jackrabbit, and a hawk, he returns to slay the murderer. A mythological gambler who has lost at play not only his property but his wife, seeks supernatural power, and by the grace of a white-headed ^gle retrieves his losses. Finally, an orphan taunted for his Poverty by a wealthy bully seeks redress in the mountains, gains ^e favor of several spirits, returns triumphant from the war-Path, and confounds his enemy.
As success results from revelations, so conversely failure is due to their lack. "All who had visions," Little-rump told me "were well-to-do; I was to be poor, so I had no visions." Yet all men want some measure of security in life, so Little-rump had at least substitutes in the form of dreams. As a member of the Tobacco society (see p. 274), he used to dream about his chap¬ter's eponym, heard the Tobacco sing, and learned the songs. "Some of them," said he, "I consider sacred. When I hear a song and have good luck immediately after that, then I consider the song sacred." This statement is doubly significant. In native speech the same word—bacFri—applies to visions and dreams, but the Indians did not confuse an everyday dream with a revela¬tion. It was only those dreams which were intrinsically stirring or proved harbingers of good fortune that stood as more or less equivalent to visions. Quite as typical is Little-rump's pragmatic attitude toward such experiences. The supreme test for both the dreamer and his tribe was whether a revelation "worked." Hard-headed empiricists, the Crow knew that not every one who claimed supernatural blessings could be signally successful. There were several explanations: either the visitant was not strong enough, or his protege flouted his commands, or a being might maliciously deceive the god-seeker. "Sometimes everything told in a vision is false; perhaps some animal plays the part of another." There was no way of detecting such trickery before¬hand: "They only find out from what happens later."
This attitude leads to a sturdy eclecticism. In 1887 Wraps-up-his-tail led an abortive uprising against the Government. He had gained a small following by demonstrations of miraculous power. Gros-ventre saw him paint his face by merely pointing his finger at the sun; Muskrat was present when he cut down pines by moving his sword, as he intended to do in mowing down the soldiers. Why, then, did he fail? "Half of his vision was true;
in part he was fooled." And there was a second reason: "Hi? vision was to come true in the spring when it thundered, but he waited until the fall."
In every generation, then, there were men with outstanding powers,—the medicine-men or batse' maxpe' (maxpe' == sacred mysterious); but their fame rested on proofs of their worth Dap'i'c was a great doctor because he had cured patients on the brink of death. Plenty-fingers, a contemporary of Medicine-
crow's father, loomed in memory not because he claimed a bear revelation, but because he worked miracles by it. In midwinter he would produce turnips and sarvis-berries; he could transform bark into dry meat; bullet-proof, he merely spat on his hands when shot, and immediately recovered. Again, Gray-bull believed in Wants-to-live because of ocular demonstration. One night the two wanted to smoke but lacked the wherewithal, but Wants-to-live asked for some bark, shook it in the air, and produced some tobacco, which Gray-bull smoked. On another occasion, the same wonder-worker rolled mud into four balls, which turned into beads for Gray-bull to wear in his necklace.
Sometimes the shamans gave a public exhibition of their powers. Gray-bull saw a contest with the two sides laying wagers against each other. One medicine-man rose and said he would knock all his opponents over on one side with his hand. They began to sing against him and defied him, but he danced by the door and the fire, made a motion with one arm as if to push them, and all fell toward one side. The spectators cheered. Then one man from the other group got up, ran round the fire four times, hooted like an owl, and disappeared. "We did not know how he went up but heard him hooting from the top of the lodge." Whether such scenes are due to sleight-of-hand, hyp¬notism, collusion, or what not, thoroughly intelligent Indians accepted them at their face value and as proof of supernatural blessing.
Growing up with a firm belief in the all-sufficiency of per¬sonal revelations, youths sought them without any prompting by their elders. From the stories of renowned contemporaries and of mythical heroes they had learned that this was the way to make their mark. In later life it was usually some special reason, say, the desire for vengeance, or worry over a sick child, that drove a man to look for supernatural aid. In any case a Crow followed a well-established norm.
Most probably he would set out for a lonely mountain peak, fast, thirst, and wail there. The Crow word for the enterprise is birici'sam, which means, "not drinking water." Almost naked, the god-seeker covered himself with a buffalo robe at night as he lay on his back facing the east, his resting-place being framed by rocks. Rising at daybreak, he sat down towards the east. As ^on as the sun rose, he laid his left forefinger on a stick and
chopped off a joint. This he put on a buffalo chip and held it out towards the Sun, whom he addressed as follows: "Uncle (i.e. Father's clansman), you see me. I am pitiable. Here is a part of my body, I give it you, eat it. Give me something good. Let me live to old age, may I own a horse, may I capture a gun may I strike a coup. Make me a chief. Let me get good fortune without trouble." Then, to quote from a legend: "The blood from his forefinger came in sprays. When the sun was further up, he fainted. The blood oozed out of him. That day he lay unconscious till evening. When it got cool, he rose. That night he was so cold he could not sleep. For all of three nights he had no vision whatsoever. On the fourth night he was so cold he could not sleep till midnight had passed; then he slept." And in his sleep he is taken into a tipi to receive his blessing.
Cutting off a finger-Joint was so popular a form of self-mortification that in 1907 most of the old people I met were disfigured in this way, some of them, to be sure, because of the mourning ritual (p. 68). However, a man might prefer other austerities. On the eve of his trial he might plant a forked stick on a hill and go there the following morning with an old man who was to pray on his behalf. This mentor painted the faster with white clay, invoked the Sun, and pierced his ward's breast or back. By this perforation he fastened the visionary to the crotched pole and went home, while the younger man began to run round his post. When tired, he was allowed to sit down, then he would resume his running. Some tore through the flesh, others failed to do so. Then, in the evening, the old man returned, cut at the edge of the dry flesh, showed it to the Sun with another prayer, and once more withdrew. The visionary slept there for the night, and might then receive a revelation. Again, a faster sometimes cut off a piece of his flesh, possibly in the shape of a horseshoe, so that he might own horses.
When Flat-dog had his back pierced, a horse was tied to one side of it and a war-bonnet on the other. Towards evening the horse, getting thirsty and restive, jerked Flat-dog's skin. He pulled out the skewer to set it free. Worn out from his exer¬tions, he fell asleep as one dead, then a man came to him, saying, "Now you will remain alive for a long time. You are poor now, but you are going to be a man of consequence. I'll cause you to live for a long time." In true experimental spirit Flat-dog
added: "Today people speak of me as old, then I think of this statement."
Still different was Hillside's way: his brother pierced his back in two places and tied a buffalo skull to it. This he dragged all day outside the camp, though in sight of the people. "I started early in tne morning and traveled all day with the skull; when the sun was low I was too weak to drag it any longer. I went to the mountain with it, my brother cut it off, and I slept on the skull tor a pillow. It was raining hard. In my sleep I heard a man say: "Wait, poor fellow, you will eat now!" He had the foot of a buffalo on him. On the Pryor side I saw a large crowd of people with this person in the lead. When I was asleep, a buffalo came up and licked me. His hair was gray; this showed that I was to live to be an old man. His being leader showed that I was to be a leader of my people. The buffalo snorted white licking me. ... I made a buffalo skin to represent my dream. While dragging the skull I was fasting. The buffalo was my real visitant; he had transformed himself into a person. On another occasion I dragged a skull."
In the Sun Dance (p. 298) both the pledger of the ceremony and a goodly number of volunteers fasted in public; and the former tried to work himself into a trance condition not essen¬tial for the ordinary vision. At the other end of the scale, both in shunning strenuous methods and in the modesty of the results, stood the custom of lying by the Tobacco garden after a plant¬ing (p. 238), a practice that might yield new Tobacco songs or dreams promising an abundant harvest.
Although the revelation was normally sought, Crow folk-tales bristle with unsolicited apparitions that opportunely rescue a hero from the brink of disaster. Nooks of the universe seem to harbor kindly beings who keep on the lockout for distressed mortals and extricate them from perilous situations. When a cruel stepfather throws a boy down a cliff, the victim's fall is broken by a ledge, where he clings to a pine tree till a being called Big-iron pities him, sends four mountain sheep to bring hirn down, gives him his own name, and grants him extraordi¬nary powers. In another story a young wife is unjustly blinded, maimed, and cast out by her husband but befriended by his younger brother. When death seems imminent for both of them, a deer and an owl treat her while a mysterious stranger feeds the compassionate brother-in-law and shows him how to kill buffalo: "That's what you'll do too. I pitied you long ago, but never reached you. I am a snake." In a third tradition a fugitive about to freeze to death in a snowstorm crawls inside a buffalo carcass still warm; the buffalo snorts and promises that he shall live to be a toothless old man. In still another instance a pair of lovers are driven from camp by a tyrannous chief. On the point of starving they are befriended by a benevolent dwarf. When he takes the man to his home, a woman reproves him for the tardiness of the rescue: " 'Bring my son soon,' I said, you have done it late, they almost died."
Not all supernaturals are equally considerate and genial. Some complain of being disturbed by having to take cognizance of human woes. When a supernatural girl brings her protege home, her father is a bit nettled at the break in his routine. "You have done wrong," he chides, "here we have been living in peace and now you have brought some one!" But his wife at once counters: "It is well, it is a good thing that she is bring¬ing him."
Such experiences in critical situations are not wholly legend¬ary. When a young boy, Lone-tree told me, he went on a war party- All his elders having been slain, the rest fled, himself being overtaken by a heavy thunderstorm. As he looked for shelter, a large white bird came from the clouds, the lightning flashing from his eyes. Hailstones were falling as big as a man's fist, but they left a circle clear around Lone-tree and the eagle. The bird said: "I live up in the heavens, I am going to adopt you." He came to him a second time and said, "Whatever you ask, we shall do it for you. I am the High Thunder." To sym¬bolize the hail, Lone-tree thereafter wore a necklace of large white beads, and he also carried on his person the head of a bald-headed eagle. It was part of his power to make rain or hail and to stop a storm. When Short-bull offended him, Lone-tree declared, "You will nearly die this summer"; and his enemy was struck by lightning, but escaped with his life.
Full-fledged visions may come not only unsought, but with¬out hardship or self-mortification. These, however, are windfalls capriciously granted, hence beyond normal expectation. One-blue-bead rather pharisaically gloated over his good luck: "Other people have to torture themselves; I never cut myself. My only marks were those of arrows in battle." As a boy he had dreamt of a Crow on a buckskin horse; the rider's face was painted red, ^e wore a buckskin shirt, and a chicken-hawk feather was tied to one of his shoulders. A voice said, "Chief Chicken-hawk is coming from there now." One-blue-bead was warned against eating meat with blood on it and has never touched it since. When he went to battle he would tie a hawk feather to his back and sing the song the bird-man had taught him. Hitherto he had been poor and of no account. After the vision he struck three enemies and became a distinguished man.
Buffalo and snakes, the chicken-hawk and the Thunder-bird, a dwarf or a mysterious old man, may thus bestow favors on mortals they pity. Often a visitant appears first as a man, but later introduces himself as what he is, or actually assumes his animal shape. Or, the song he teaches will define his nature, which may likewise be announced by a voice. Besides his un¬sought Thunder vision, Lone-tree also came to see the Seven Stars through deliberately fasting. First a man sat beside him, offering food, but a voice warned him it was human flesh. Some¬thing at the back of Lone-tree's head whispered that the visitant was the constellation, and when the mysterious person rose my informant saw the Seven Stars hanging down the back of his long braided hair.
Some sixty reports of such encounters, traditional or his¬torical, bring out some significant facts and problems. Is there one ultimate source of power? God-seekers invariably address the Sun, and offer their flesh to him; and in one narrative the Sun announces the advent of his servant, the Eagle or Thunder-bird. Are, then, the Thunderbird and other visitants mere mes¬sengers and deputies of a great Sun god? Given our monothe¬istic bias, the inference seems natural, yet evidence for it is almost wholly lacking. Always invoked, the Sun hardly ever appears; and several dozen reports of apparitions by birds, buf¬falo, bears and less popular mammals contain no suggestion that the visitants were sent by higher authority. In the overwhelming majority of cases animals, dwarfs, and nondescripts confer boun¬ces in their own right, their independence being at times ex¬plicitly asserted. Scratches-face was the only informant who tried t0 bring alt mystic experiences under a common head: "Old Woman's Grandchild told all the animals to help the people of
the earth, and that is why they appeared in these dreams. The animals gave power to these Indians." Since Grandchild is the son of the Sun, this view would ultimately trace all blessings to a solar deity, but it is clearly an anomalous position.
Yet the Sun was certainly the most dominant single figure of Crow belief. He was the first to be invoked for aid and had a monopoly of such offerings as albino buffalo and sweat-lodges, Anticipating what I have to say about Crow gods generally (see p. 251), I suggest that the Sun is an old tribal deity who looms preeminent in an individual's consciousness except when ousted from that position by a guardian spirit. Such a one assumed the position of a special providence, was regarded as the visionary's "father" and sometimes formally adopted him as a "son,"~a pattern for all ceremonial transfers (p. 249). To this familiar a Crow looked for protection and guidance,—above all, in the situations indicated by his revelation. How this "father" com¬pared in strength with the Sun or the patrons of other Indians, was a problem that did not spontaneously arise. It became sig¬nificant only when and if there was a clash of interests; and then the assurance with which a Crow relied on his individual patron against the rest of the universe, conceivably including the Sun himself (see p. 253), was amazing.
Supernaturals may come to loggerheads on behalf of their mortal sons as Ares and Pallas contended over Trojan and Greek heroes. At a trial of strength referred to about the middle of the last century one shaman began to cough, spitting out super¬natural worms that rapidly grew in numbers and advanced against his opponent. But his rival merely struck his side, whence issued a little woodpecker that devoured the worms. If a man only had confidence in his "father" he might snap his fingers at the most dangerous of other powers. Big-iron (p. 241), whom tradi¬tion puts ten generations before the coming of the whites, re¬ceived a club from his supernatural old man. Once it was thun¬dering, but Big-iron sallied forth and defied the Thunder, who vainly tried again and again to throw lightning at him. "The fourth time Big-iron took out his club and pretended to throw it at the lightning. Then the clouds all burst up and nothing but the blue sky was to be seen.''
Yet frequently the supernaturals cooperate, as in the doctor¬ing of the maimed and blinded woman (p. 241). Sometimes dis¬ tinct beings of one species jointly bless a person,—seven cranes or seven bulls, four men, or a human couple. In mythology a veri¬table relay of birds and beasts may succor a hero in distress; and in the Twined-tail story appears the principle of noblesse oblige; the hero's patron wants to get for his child some extra power, so he summons an old man: "Yonder is a man; he has a child and has invoked me [on his child's behalf], now / will invoke him.7'
Nothing prevents a man from gaining power from several independent supernaturals. Lone-tree had the Seven Stars as well as the Thunderbird for his patrons; and the legendary Raven-face was blessed successively by a bear, a rabbit, and a deer. One version of the story has its amusing side. As the hero walks along, the rabbit, pursued by the bird of prey, leaps inside his blanket. The hawk offers to adopt Raven-face if he will surrender the fugitive. But the rabbit says, "Don't do it. I am the more powerful. Take some snow from that drift and give it to him, let him eat that." The hero throws the snow at the hawk, and as he watches it, it turns into a rabbit, which the pursuer eats. Thus, Raven-face gets the power of both animals.
The nature of a blessing often corresponds to the "father's" natural gifts. Lone-tree became a weather magician because the Thunder had adopted him. A deer says to Raven-face: "Of all things on this earth that step on the ground there is nothing that beats me in running. By that save yourself in time of trou¬ble." Similarly, Humped-wolf, having met a buffalo, becomes heavy and slow in battle, so that no matter what happens he shall not run away.
This type of revelation merges into another, in which the patron confers not merely the gifts of his species but his indi¬vidual status or capacity. Humped-wolfs buffalo sees him worry¬ing over a wound and opens its mouth, which proves to be tooth¬less. "You shall be the same as myself. . . , You cannot die until then (when you have no more teeth). That is the first thing I will give you." So the buffalo-man who blessed Hillside had gray hair and was leading a large crowd of people: ". . . this showed that I was to live to be an old man. His being leader showed that I was to be a leader of my people." Again, Full-mouth-buf-falo, returning to camp, is caught by a bear. "He lifted me up ^ that I could see all the earth. He made me touch his teeth; he had none at all. 'You may jump among high cliffs or do what you please,' said he, 'you cannot die. When you have no more teeth and all your hair is white, you shall fall asleep without awaking.' " Medicine-crow's stepfather almost duplicated this legendary experience. "A bear jumped up and caught him. He thought he was being killed, but the bear held him up and asked whether he could see all the world. 'Yes.' Then the bear said Tut your fingers into my mouth.' The bear had no teeth." On the same principle, the benevolent Dwarf of a myth, whose body is "of stone," transfers his own invulnerability to the poor man he befriends: "Now your body is of stone."
But whether the visitant transmits his individual powers or not, he commonly employs a transparent symbolism to indi¬cate the nature of his gift. Bull-all-the-time gained a doctor's powers while asleep in his tipi. He saw a horse fastened to a rope, which was lengthened up to him, and simultaneously heard a person sing. He was told to treat the sick; an old man with a pipestem was standing over a recumbent patient and blew over him through the pipe; the sick man rose and my informant saw all the sickness come out of the patient's blood. He showed me the pipestem thus revealed to him. The horse stood for the horses he was to get as fees. Arm-round-the-neck had a similar promise of wealth: "I dreamt someone was kicking my foot and there were horses all round me with ropes to their necks and fastened to my body. I heard someone say, 'Wherever you go, you shall have horses.' Ever since then I have had horses. I think this dream was given me by dogs. I was walking, followed by several dogs. I lay down under a tree, and fell asleep, with the dogs lying round me about the tent. So I thought they took pity on me and gave me horses."
Sometimes the circumstances of an apparition are set forth in simple terms involving a mere vision or audition, the adop¬tion formula, and a few instructions and taboos by the super-naturals. Gray-bull had inherited his grandfather's sacred bundle and went out to fast with it. "I saw a bird flying over me in a circle. It descended and went down into a canyon whistling-On both sides there were rocks. The rocks began to shoot at the bird but failed to hit it, so that it came out unhurt. ... I did not know that I could not be shot until long afterwards. I was never shot. I kept my dreams secret, for I was afraid if I told them I might get shot. Once many Piegan were lying under a nine tree. One was some distance in front of us. ... He shot it me when I was just above him but he did not hit me. That night I dreamt and someone said to me, 'Don't you know that you cannot be shot?' "
Gray-bull's contemporary, Scratches-face, after much hem¬ming and hawing, divulged the following experience. After chop¬ping off the customary finger-joint, offering it to Old Woman's Grandson, and swooning from loss of blood, he had heard a person clearing his throat, the snorting of a horse, then a human voice. "I saw men riding on horses ... I heard little bells. They were not men or horses but shadows of these. One man was riding a bobtailed horse and had painted his horse with a lightning mark on all four legs. . . . His rear braid reached the ground, the rest of his hair was clipped short. 'I will show you what you want to see. You have been poor, so I'll give you what you want.' ... All the trees and everything growing around there then turned into men and began shooting at them. . . . The dust flew up to the sky. It flew up again on the east side of the horizon, where the riders had gone, and there I heard a lot of talking. . . . They came and passed behind me. I heard them yelling and whistling. They came and stood in front of me. The rider of the bobtail said to me, 'If you want to fight all the people of the earth, do as I do and you will . . . not be shot.' All the six horsemen started eastward. The rider of the bob¬tail held a spear; it was like fire. They were shooting as before. This rider knocked the people down with his spear. . . . Then followed a hailstorm. The hailstones were as big as my fist and knocked down those shooting at the horsemen. I saw them rid¬ing around in the storm. This storm was the Thunder and helped the six riders; it was caused by a man with wings. When I went out ... against an Indian tribe up north and fought in battle, I did just what I had seen in my dream. ... I was not shot. They killed an enemy; I struck him first. I fasted in the spring when I was eighteen years old. Ever since then I have owned good and fast horses. ... I prayed for a good-natured and hard-working woman; my present wife ... is like that."
A suggestive variation of this experience is attributed to Andicicopc. The spokesman of his visitants urges several of them successively to give his "child" their power, they turn into birds,
~T-and the trees, transformed into enemies, shoot off some of their feathers. The last one transforms himself into a screech-owl remains unscathed, and henceforth the visionary was bullet-proof.
Visions, then, were the basic means of controlling life, and virtually every man tried to secure one. Yet there were men like Little-rump who failed even after repeated self-mortifica¬tion. They were, we may guess, folk unsuggestible even in fast¬ing and solitude or in other ways disqualified for the part of seers. More numerous, I take it, were those who gained super¬natural experience of a sort but not of the kind backed by out¬standing success; reliance on their revelation might thus be tempered by a measure of hard-headed skepticism. Yet all men crave the life values, so the Crow fell back upon the notion that supernatural power could be transferred: the vision still re¬mained its fountain-head, but its benefits could be transferred by purchase or inheritance. These practices were tied up with a number of significant conceptions.
In the first place, the feather, rock, or bundle that symbol¬ized the power granted to a visionary had a potency in its own right. By teaching the relevant rules the owner could therefore bequeath or transfer it to a close relative, who thus became a beneficiary without himself enjoying direct spiritual contacts. For instance, Strikes-at-night had escaped poverty by obtaining a Horse medicine. When she showed it to me, its virtue, she explained, was still there, for her son Bull-weasel, over whose bed she kept the bundle, owned plenty of horses.
The idea of transmission appears again and again. The out¬sider who wished to buy especially valuable medicines was at first treated as an undesirable intruder. When Flat-head-woman wanted to gain part ownership of the Sacred Arrow the chief holder demurred: "Why do you want this so badly? You are not related to us, you are a different person altogether." Then Hillside, the speaker's brother and thus himself joint-owner, in¬terceded, "He was the comrade of my dead younger brother. They loved each other, that's why I wish to give it to hir^ Don't say any more against it." Sometimes a person coveting a particular medicine slily got into the owner's good grace? until native etiquette made refusal impossible. Thus, Strikes-at-night, when still destitute, found out that the owner of the
Horse bundle needed a new tent cover. Being a good tanner, the offered to assist in the preparation of the hides, which she tanned whenever the owner brought back hides from the chase. Thus, she tanned fifteen hides, sewed them together, and put up the tipi. Now the owner's wife asked what pay she would like to get. Then Strikes-at-night explained that she was poor because her husband was blind and that she wanted to acquire the Horse medicine. The other woman got angry: "If you had told me before, I should never have let you finish the hides. Now I can hardly refuse you." For a long time she remained silent, at last she asked my informant to bring her husband. She told the couple that she had hitherto refused to adopt any one. However, "Now you have worked hard on this tent and finished it. I have thought it over and I will give it to you." Strikes-at-night added: "The other people were telling me I was very cunning because of the way I got the medicine. I had merely followed my husband's directions, but they all laid it to me."
In other words, power with its symbols could be trans¬ferred in whole or in part. That compensation should be paid for the benefit of a vision was, indeed, so firmly rooted an idea that some ceremonial privileges had to be paid for even if a son got them from his own parent. However this be, the Crow could indefinitely extend the range of beneficiaries from a vision. In such cases the visionary (or transferror) was conceived to stand to the purchaser in the same ceremonial relationship as the super¬natural being to the visionary: as the supernatural adopts the visionary as his "child" so the owner of a medicine becomes the buyer's "father."
Every sacred object was revealed in a vision, but it could also stimulate a vision, as in Gray-bull's case (p. 246). Child-in-the-mouth told me of a corresponding experience. He was once so poor that he had to travel afoot. He was not yet a member °f the Tobacco order, but his mother-in-law had inherited a Tobacco necklace and through her daughter she sent my inform¬ant out fasting with it. He was blessed by an aged couple, who Promised him wealth and good luck generally. He subsequently ^'ent to war, struck coups, captured guns, and was never poor thereafter. Flat-head-woman's case was similar. He had received a sacred arrow from the owners of the Arrow bundle. When they felt that he knew the associated rules, they sent him out on his own. To quote him: "I was now to have visions of my own. I did not see an arrow as they did, but a long species of grass. I would see the stalk flying like an arrow and follow it with my eyes till it alighted somewhere, then I would go thither, From now on everything depended on myself. I had visions of different things. I made a little notched stick about four inches long myself, because I had a vision to that effect. If the enemy had stolen our horses and I put this on their tracks, they would sleep too long or be otherwise delayed, so we would catch up if I led the party."
The sacred objects revealed either singly or in combina¬tion as "bundles" may be regarded as essentially fetiches. Even when not actually manufactured, they are generally dressed up, as in the case of sacred rocks (see p. 261) or arranged; and they unquestionably are regarded with awe and are often invoked. In other words, the Crow personify inanimate objects and invest them with supernatural power. This is not pantheism, for I do not believe for a moment that they consistently elevate all objects of the external world. It is rather that potentially anything what¬soever can be brought within the sphere of the mysteriously potent. Because a chickenhawk feather appeared at the back of a visitant's head, the visionary looks for a feather of the same type, wears it in battle, and prays to it, as did One-blue-bead. But he would not pray to any other kind of feather, though he certainly recognized that others, on the basis of their revela¬tions, might venerate whatever they had seen. Thus, the owners of a sacred Arrow bundle took it on their war parties. To quote one of them: "When we saw the enemy, we took it out and prayed to it. ... This spring, when Flat-head-woman seemed to be dying, they opened it for him and prayed on his behalf." According to Hillside, the Seven Stars had given this bundle to his brother with an appropriate song. But it was the arrows themselves that were invoked, received offerings, spoke to Flat-head-woman and laid down rules for his conduct; and through their power, he believed, the Dakota had failed to destroy the Crow. A similar shift appears in the very instructive sweat-lodge prayer already quoted for its literary interest (p. 115). Genen-cally, a sweat-lodge is considered an offering to the Sun, but 1" this particular case the sweat-lodge itself is supplicated, and so are the willows composing it, nay, even the charcoal and fat in it. I interpret this to mean that inanimate things can become per¬sonified, holy, and for the time being divine through their con¬tact with a mystic or awe-inspiring context. Whether any other worshiper would make a similar extension, whether even the same man would subsequently deify charcoal and fat in similar situations, is doubtful. We are, I think, dealing with nonce-gods created by a momentary impulse but one none the less real at the time and none the less illuminating as to the potential range of Crow worship.
What holds for inanimate things is equally applicable to the animal kingdom. No Crow worshiped on principle the entire fauna of his country. But accounts of recent and legendary visions prove that no species can be ruled out as a possible source of power. Not only such impressive species as the bear, buffalo, and eagle, but prairie-chickens and blackbirds, lizards and weasels, even ants and bees, figure as helpers in particular situations. The Crow world-view, in other words, precludes noth¬ing from the range of the mystically potent, but the individual consciousness ascribed power to a relatively narrow selection of beings, their identity being determined by chance experience.
To discuss Crow religion in terms of a definite pantheon would therefore be preposterous. Crow "gods" are not clear-cut beings with sharply denned cosmic or social functions. Divine power is not concentrated in a few major personalities, let alone a single supreme ruler, but diffused over the universe and likely to crop up in unexpected places. A Crow does not first envisage a god and then worship him; he starts with the thrill, with the sense of a supernatural agency, and objectifies his emotional stirrings. To us the indifference as to the precise source of power is almost incredible. Thus, as already noted, Hillside derived the Arrow bundle from the Seven Stars, who had given it to his brother. But Flat-head-woman, who became a part owner through Hillside's intercession, traced its origin to a black-haired but white-faced female visitant. There had been a primary vision, the boon conferred—the Arrow bundle—had proved its potency, and that was the really important thing.
This statement, roughly accurate though it is, requires some qualification. There are certain supernaturals that appear with tolerable frequency both in ritual and visionary experiences,— notably the Morning Star (usually identified with Old Woman'' Grandson), the Thunder (usually in eagle shape), buffalo, bears various birds, and above all the Sun, who comes as near as any being to the dignity of a supreme god. Yet though the Sun (a'xace) is invoked in oaths and in the vision quest, though albino buffalo and sweat-lodges are regularly dedicated to him though he sporadically figures as superior even to such obviously strong powers as the Thunder, the picture formed of him is singularly puzzling. Is he, or is he not, equated with The One Above (ba'kukure') whom the Indians sometimes addressed in prayer? Probably so, but it is impossible to tell with assurance. Is he the originator of the Indians and the shaper of the earth? That, too, remains a problem. There is no question whatsoever that these functions are assigned to Old Man Coyote; and if the Sun and Old Man Coyote are one and the same, then obviously the Sun is the creator. Now, Medicine-crow, one of the most devout and conservative of my informants, constantly wavered as to this crucial point in his version of cosmogony. Others took sharp issue with such identification. The Sun, said White-arm, was regularly supplicated, Old Man Coyote never; according to One-blue-bead, Old Man Coyote was the creator of everything— the equivalent of the white man's God (akba/tat-dr'a, The Maker of Everything), while the Sun was distinct.
There is a real dilemma here. To treat "Sun" and "Old Man Coyote" as synonyms does indeed reserve for the single most eminent figure of ritual the role of creator. But it also saddles the Sun with all the grossness, the low cunning, the lechery of the Trickster, who constantly defies the most sacred native institutions, such as the incest taboos. Further, it would degrade the Sun in point of sheer power, for Old Man Coyote is repeatedly himself duped, exposed, humiliated. I accept the ma¬jority verdict—confirmed in myth—that the Sun is distinct from the Trickster, but that leaves him an extremely vague personal¬ity. Generally the suggestion is certainly that of a benignant and powerful supernatural, the father of Old Woman's Grandson (Morning Star), a being more likely to be invoked than others m the absence of a specific tutelary. When such a patron appears, the Sun recedes into the background of the religious conscious¬ness. To quote One-blue-bead: "The only thing I prayed to spe¬cially was my feather. I might pray to the Sun any time," That
is to say, in a particular crisis, a Crow was likely to rely on his Movidentia specialissima, the visitant of his revelation, the "medicine" then conferred upon him. Lacking a condition of peculiar stringency or if no specific medicine was his, he would fall back upon the most commonly revered tribal deity. The Crow were not philosophers but opportunists. They were rarely bothered by the question how a sacred feather might be meta-physically linked with the Sun. As already noted, supernaturals often appear as though belonging to different universes, as wholly incommensurable quantities when not brought into direct collision. Indeed, comparatively well-defined gods are sporadi¬cally impotent in the face of obscure agencies. The legendary medicine man Big-iron mocks the Thunder with impunity. Whence his assurance and strength? From an otherwise unmen-tioned supernatural old man who had given him the blessing of four successive lives. Old Woman's Grandson, the child of the Sun, conquers all the monsters infesting this earth, but flees in horror from the foetus of a calf. The explicit explanation is that everyone is afraid of something! So the Sun himself is described in one tale as petulantly starving the Crow because his mistress is enamored of an orphan boy; and what is more, he is worsted because the human hero magically lures game to the camp. In short, there is no absolute ascendancy in the Crow universe; supernaturals represent shifting values, determined empirically, case by case, via a pragmatic test.
From the foregoing it is clear that religion and ethics are largely divorced. The really vital social canons, such as the incest taboos, the laws of chivalry, and the ideals of chastity, have no supernatural sanctions. It does not shock the Crow sense of congruity to have old Man Coyote lust for his daughter, or the Sun eat human flesh. When a prospective visionary calls upon the supernaturals to favor him, he hardly ever stresses his moral worth but his pitiable plight. What he begs for is not moral ele¬vation but some material benefit; and it is compassion that ani¬mates his patron in granting it. Often, to be sure, the visitant lays down rules of conduct, but they have no bearing on social considerations, they are capricious taboos of a dietary or ritual¬istic character. Flat-head-woman's arrow forbade him to throw anything in the lodge harboring it lest he lose his property; and on pain of blindness he was never to cook fat above a paunch or to throw ashes from his tipi. Consistently with this point of view, good intentions were no safeguard against the consequences of transgression. A man who unwittingly ate forbidden food or whose visitors broke rules imposed upon him in the conduct of his lodge had to bear the brunt of the threatened catastrophe.
The individual Crow seems absolutely free in his religious life. He may believe what he will as to creation, cosmology, and the hereafter; he is not coerced to worship this or that deity; he is apparently guided only by his own specific vision, personally or vicariously experienced. Yet in reality he cannot escape the subtle influences of social tradition. For when this subjective experience of the vision is scrutinized, what do we find? Men covet it for the social eminence it brings, seek it by techniques traditionally handed down, sell its benefits according to estab¬lished usage. What is more, the very details of the mystic experi¬ence are not spontaneous growths, but in large measure recom¬binations of the same old motifs. If the visions were really inde¬pendent psychic manifestations, how came it that visitants always adopted their favorites as their "children," that they usually came after four nights of waiting, imposed generically similar taboos on different visionaries? Wraps-up-his-tail, killed in 1887, could paint his face by merely pointing his finger at the Sun, but the very same power is granted to Twined-tail in a folk-story. Gray-bull, fasting with his grandfather's medicine, saw a bird flying; the rocks turned into enemies shooting at the bird, but failed to hit it. Thus he gained invulnerability. But that is virtually the very thing that befell Scratches-face: in his experi¬ence equestrian visitants are shot at by trees but remain un-scotched. What is more, the essentials are told circumstantially of an anonymous hero. In short, the visionary does not receive an individual vision. The way he gets his revelation and its very content as well are determined by the ideas current in Crow so¬ciety, though of course remodeled by his individual fancy and the needs of the moment.
Compared with beliefs and practices of other natives the whole world over, Crow religion exhibits most of the features found elsewhere but with a difference of emphasis. Of the atti¬tude toward the Sun I have already written at length. Ancestor-worship is indisputably lacking, but few of the other major re¬ligious manifestations are wholly absent. Thus, nothing has been said of local genii, yet Pryor creek was conceived as the special haunt of a benevolent dwarf. The native name for this water¬course is "Arrow creek," the vicinity being called "They shoot at rocks" because Indians passing by would make an offering of arrows to the dwarf, shooting them into the crevices. My in¬formant Bear-crane had himself done so in his younger days Again, while the role of ghosts has been discussed, I have not referred to the deification of a definite person after death,—not of course as the ancestor of an individual or group, but as a supernatural for the tribe at large. Yet there is one clear instance, When the great medicine-man Big-iron died, he declared that the Crow were to lay down presents at his tree-burial—specifi¬cally beads—and he would fulfill their prayers; and the people obeyed his commands. This same character illustrates another unique conception. His supernatural patron had granted him fourfold life and shown him how to rejuvenate himself. Accord¬ingly, when he grew old, he had himself thrown into the water, became young again, and lived until the end of his fourth period. Divination is rightly considered atypical for American Indians, but forms of augury do occur (p. 234). Fetichism nourishes in the form defined (p. 250). Finally, imitative magic is a common if unobtrusive element. A game-charmer puts a buffalo skull with its nose toward the camp and reverses it when buffalo are no longer needed. Tobacco dance celebrants raise their drum¬sticks to further the growth of their weed. Sun-dancers blacken their paraphernalia to suggest the blackening of the face that betokens a slain enemy.
My conjectures are these. The Crow world-view is consistent with a great many of the beliefs typical of primitive tribes gen¬erally, hence sporadically similar notions arose among them. Some of these conceptions, such as imitative magic, are pre¬sumably of hoary antiquity, and they have persisted among the Crow irrespective of subsequent notions. However, they have not retained their ascendancy as in other areas. The hyper¬trophy of the individual vision represents an overlay that has pushed other beliefs into the background, encroaching even on the widespread American worship of the Sun. Visions themselves are doubtless very old, but the one-sided stressing of individual visions as the source of power is a comparatively late develop¬ment that largely remolded the rationale of Crow religion.
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот ikche wichasha » Чет Апр 08, 2010 9:35 am

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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Чет Апр 08, 2010 11:38 am

Последна промяна 88 на Чет Апр 08, 2010 12:03 pm, променена общо 1 път
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Чет Апр 08, 2010 11:51 am

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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот White Horse » Чет Апр 08, 2010 2:21 pm

Колкото и да са били близки като култура лакота и кроу, като че ли религиозните им вярвания показват и редица различия... Духовете, които играят хазарт, залагайки човешки животи, както и водещият военен аспект в церемониалния комплекс на Танца на Слънцето при кроу нямат аналози при лакота. Не е изключено търсенето на прилики и в други прояви на традиционната им духовност да се окаже подвеждащо.

При чернокраките също има едно обяснение за същността на Създателя, което подозрително напомня идеята за християнската Св. Троица, но май всъщност си е доста старо и съвсем автохтонно. Ихципайтапиопа е Великата Тайна, която се намира навсякъде и във всичко, Силата на съществуването. Аапистотохки е Създателят като конкретен Велик Дух-демиург. Натуси, Слънцето е видимата проява на Създателя. Трябва да прибавим и четвърти аспект на сакралната творческа Сила, който обаче е отделен от първите три - Напи, Старецът, трикстерът. В хиндуизма също става въпрос за Троица (Тримурти) - Брама, Вишну и Шива. Явно тази идея е много по-стара от християнството - а защо и да не е доста по-разпространена, отколкото допускаме?
Последна промяна White Horse на Чет Апр 08, 2010 3:38 pm, променена общо 1 път
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Чет Апр 08, 2010 3:32 pm

Аргументите ти за различията между лакота и кроу са основателни.Не съм запознат с чернокракската религия и култура в дълбочина,почти всичко което знам е от книгите на Гринел и Шулц,а те не наблягат твърде на религията им.
Мислиш ли,че концепцията за Светата Троица е приложима към религията на лакота,и ако да, според теб с автохонен характер ли е?
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот White Horse » Чет Апр 08, 2010 3:51 pm

Дали концепцията за Св. Троица е приложима към традиционните вярвания на лакота (или поне към това, което знаем за тях)? Малко се колебая, но май че по-скоро не е. Небето, Слънцето, Камъкът и Земята са първите ЧЕТИРИ Начала; следващите (Луната, Вятърът, Падащата звезда и Гърмът) също са четири, както са четири по четири всички аспекти на Уакан Танка. Така че при сиуксите по-скоро можем да говорим за "Света Четворица".
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот Black Wolf » Чет Апр 08, 2010 4:16 pm

То и в гръцката митология има такава троица - Зевс-Посейдон-Хадес, но ако вярваме на школата на Дюмезил, тази троица е характерна за всички индо-европейски митологии (Один-Тор-Фрейр, Перун-Сварог-Велес и пр. и пр.)
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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Чет Апр 08, 2010 4:40 pm

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Re: Религията на лакота, пантеистична или политеистична?

Мнениеот 88 » Чет Апр 08, 2010 5:00 pm

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